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In this episode of K9 Conservationists, Kayla speaks with Kerry Ryan from Dog Adventures Northwest about dog boarding.
Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Science Highlight: Evaluating and integrating spatial capture–recapture models with data of variable individual identifiability
Where to find Kerry: Website | Facebook | Instagram
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Transcript (AI-Generated)
Kayla Fratt 00:01
Hey all, I’m just dropping in to the start of this episode with an ask. K9Conservationists is a nonprofit, and we are heading into the holiday fundraising season. I know there are so many worthwhile causes to support, and times are tough, but we do have to ask. So this year, our goal is to raise just under $5,000.00, which would get us a new GPS collar to make sure that all of our dogs have their own GPS collars for our surveys, and to cover my travel to South Africa for the African Canines in Conservation Conference, which is hosted by the Endangered Wildlife Trust. I’ve been invited to be one of the keynote speakers, and I’m so so so excited, but it’s going to be really expensive to get me there, and we want to make sure that I can do this for free, rather than charging Endangered Wildlife Trust or raising the prices of this conference, which is aimed to help African canine handlers get together and learn we don’t want to be charging them for my, you know, very expensive plane tickets. So if you find the content that we put together on these episodes. Valuable. I really hope that you’ll consider donating, which you can [email protected]. Your donations are tax deductible and will make it possible for me to travel to South Africa, again at no cost to our hosts. And then, aside from being a keynote speaker at this conference, I would also be able to provide some one on one mentoring and shadowing for several different teams that we’ve worked with remotely for the past several years, which is really, really invaluable. I am so excited about this opportunity to provide free capacity building and support to these programs, but we do need your help to pull it off again, you can donate using the big green donate button on our website, k9conservationists.org, thank you so much. And here’s the episode!
Kayla Fratt 01:53
Hello and welcome to the K9Conservationists podcast, where we are positively obsessed with conservation detection dogs. Join us every other Tuesday to talk about detection training, canine welfare, conservation biology and everything in between. I’m Kayla Fratt, one of three co-founders of K9Conservationists, where we train dogs to detect detect data for researchers, NGOs and agencies. Today, I’m really excited to be talking to Kerry Ryan from Dog Adventures Northwest, about boarding. This may seem like an odd topic for a conservation dog episode podcast, but for most of us, there does come a time where we need to board our dogs, and today I’m really excited to talk to Kerry, because we’re talking about finding the right boarding place and why this matters. And this is especially salient for those of us with extra dogs or dogs dogs with like extra needs. So these might be the sorts of dogs that don’t necessarily do well with just having the neighbors kids come over and watch them. That might be because of their energy levels, their needs to recover from an injury, or orthopedic behavioral needs, or special rules regarding their care as working dogs. Kerry and I first connected when I was looking for a place to board King Barley during a personal trip to Europe, and we’ve been kind of in communication about her program and what they’re working on ever since.
Kayla Fratt 03:12
So, Kerry is an outdoor enthusiast, a dog play specialist, an ethical small business entrepreneur, and the proud mama of an awesome little dog named Jojo, who I just got to see on screen. She is a professional member of both the Association of Professional Dog Trainers and the family dog mediation center, and has been voted the best individual trainer of the Northwest by spot magazine for several years running. Congratulations. And Kerry can geek out on dog behavior all day long and regularly, regularly participates in continuing education, opportunities in behavior and learning. Kerry believes that many of the issues humans have with their pups can easily be alleviated through proper exercise and mental enrichment. To this end, Kerry started Dog Adventures Northwest to make it easier for people to meet the needs of their four legged family members. Since its inception in December of 2011 there have been many miles of Happy Trails and even more happy tails.
Kayla Fratt 04:03
I’m really excited to share this interview with you all and get into it, but first we’re going to dive into our science highlight. So this week, I read the paper “Evaluating and integrating spatial capture/recapture models with data of variable individual identifiability,” which was written by my own lab mates, Joel Rupert, Charlotte Erickson, and my advisor, Taal Levy, alongside five fabulous co authors. This paper was published in Ecological Applications in 2021, and basically this paper looked at a suite of mathematical models that are used for estimating density of carnivores. These models ranged from some that only required detection of unmarked individuals, which might be useful for like camera traps or something when you’re looking at animals that don’t have unique spot patterns or something like that, to other models that can integrate remote cameras physical capture genetic markers, which are usually gathered through scat or GPS collars. And GPS collars, they use detection dogs to collect this scat of bears, bobcats, coyotes and pumas, and then some individual animals were fitted with GPS collars that had visual markers on them, so that when they walked past cameras, you could identify individual animals. The researchers found that camera based generalized spatial Mark recite models varied by less than 10% from the genetic spatial Mark recite once sources of variation, such as sex and behavioral status were controlled for. The hybrid models that contained all data sources exhibited the most precise estimates for all species. And I really loved that this paper involved comparing models in the context of a real system in Starkey Experimental Forest, rather than in a simulation. There’s quite a bit of math in this paper, since it is focused on modeling, but it shows the back end of how the genetic data collected in scat by our beloved dogs can be used. And if that’s something you’re interested in, I would encourage you to check it out again. There’s a lot of math, so it’s going to be a pretty short science highlight, because I’m not going to try to read that out loud to you all.
Kayla Fratt 05:57
So, Kerry, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to have you here.
Kerry Ryan 06:00
Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
Kayla Fratt 06:03
Yeah. So why don’t we kind of start out with what I mean you, we hinted at this in the intro, but what inspired you to start Dog Adventures Northwest. Where did this come from?
Kerry Ryan 06:11
I became a certified dog trainer in 2005 and spent many years doing board and trains for Wonder puppy, which is a really fabulous Portland training company. And so I did board and learns or board and trains. And oftentimes when I would return the dogs, people would be they would be so surprised, they’d be like, Oh my gosh, I haven’t I have a different animal. You must have. You must have done so much training and put so much training into into my dog. And the answer was actually that, yes, we did training, but usually what they were seeing was the effects of the physical and mental enrichment I gave their dog. Wow. I was boarding and training them. They were met with their dog, who be who, who seemed far more regulated than when they left their dog. And again, I’d love to take credit for the training, but most of it was just having having their needs met. So this was years ago, and so at the time, I still believed in the maxim, “a tired dog is a good dog.” I don’t believe that anymore, but at the time, I thought, you know, I love hiking. When I am boarding dogs, I’m always bringing them hiking. It’s clearly making a difference. And is there a way that I can turn this into an opportunity for Portland pet parents to to let to basically outsource their dog’s physical enrichment? And then, of course, over time, I learned about the values of mental enrichment. I became a family dog mediator a couple of years ago, and and so we have in, I’d say, in the last few years, have really leaned into also making sure that we’re taking care of the mental enrichment of the dogs that we serve. So Dog Adventures Northwest takes dogs hiking, but we also offer a bunch of wraparound services, private training, overnight care, etc, where we’re trying to to meet the the whole dog and their needs.
Kayla Fratt 08:31
Yeah, gosh, I love that. And there’s so many different threads that I’m excited to pull on. But I know it’s something that many of us notice within the conservation dog world. You know, it’s not uncommon for us to acquire dogs through shelters, through rescue. And these dogs often come to us with kind of a suite of behavioral issues, you know, reactivity, chewing on inappropriate items, you know, you name it like the list goes on and on, and we often see those concerns more or less evaporate with the appropriate enrichment and exercise routines that come up. And I know even with my own dogs, neither of whom has like a standing behavior concern that I’m watching or working on or anything like that, but they’re just overall more relaxed when we’re in the field, and when their needs are being met really consistently that way. And yeah. So I love that, and I love thinking about Yeah, the whole dog, and seeing how, yes, training is really, really important, but often just meeting their needs. And you know, for some of us, who you know, we have the privilege of working in the working dog world, and we’re really able bodied, or whatever category you might fall into, you might wonder like, Gosh, why does someone even have a dog if they can’t meet that dog’s exercise needs? And you know, sometimes circumstances change once you’ve already got the dog. Maybe we can talk about that a little bit, but there’s a lot of reasons. That someone might intermittently, or even more consistently, be unable to kind of meet their dog’s needs, and it doesn’t mean that that dog should be re homed. So maybe we start with that kind of caveat. Yeah,
Kerry Ryan 10:11
totally. I mean, we, we have a unique American problem of our own making. I guess I’d say beyond just America, first world countries, where we have taken these social mammals and isolated them into homes and then left them there for for what we have to do, which is, which is work? I never, I never blame the pet guardian, because this isn’t this is a problem. This is more of a systemic problem, and it’s also a problem that we are so deep in that we have to deal with what is in front of us. And what is in front of us is that in America, we can’t open the door and have the dog entertain herself for the full day. We have to keep them safe. We have roads and cars. We have to keep them inside when they’re not being supervised or very carefully outside. And we also, because we live in a capitalist society, we need to work and so what winds up happening is that people get a dog which is and oftentimes their perception of their dog is influenced by pop culture or media sources or maybe Just memories of the dog at when they grew up, their childhood dog and and so they kind of wind up backed into a corner where they would do anything for their dog. Their dog is a part of their heart, and they want to provide for their dog, and simultaneously, they’re having trouble providing for the mental enrichment needs of their dog, and therefore are experiencing behavioral issues. I think that that telling someone with a border collie that that they shouldn’t have gotten a border collie doesn’t doesn’t help that dog, doesn’t help that person, that dog is a is very likely not going to be re homed. That dog is very likely a part of the family. And so instead, we need to be creative about the ways that we meet dogs needs so that we can make it, so that a herding breed can live in a family, or a working, working line breed can live, say in a city, or, I should say more, like a livestock Guardian breed. You know that we have, we have so many different types of dogs and and yes, we can certainly, we can certainly better educate people about the kinds of dogs that would work well for them. I think, I think that’s would be very helpful. But at the end of the day, we really do have to deal with the animal in the home.
Kayla Fratt 13:23
Yeah, absolutely. And it is funny how so much of these, so many of our podcast episodes kind of come back to gosh. Why is it always capitalism and imperialism, queer conservation? Here we are. We’re talking about capitalism again. Always, always, yeah. And, I mean, I know, I personally am kind of in this boat where I have two very fit, very athletic Border Collies, and half of the year I meet their needs really, really easily. And then half the year I’m a PhD student. And, you know, I’m currently I’m currently being very good. I’m currently injury free, and I’m, like, keeping up on all of my homework and everything. So, like, I’m getting up at 630 we’re running the dogs like we’re going to agility, like I’m keeping up with it all right now. But that isn’t always the case for me. While I’m in class, and there are times where I am, like, pretty desperately behind, or, you know, I even just have, like, days where I need to be on campus for 10, 1214, hours, usually with breaks. But still, you know, it adds a lot to my day to have to bike home, take the dogs out, and bike back, and that still, like, you know, at best, it’s a potty break and
Kerry Ryan 14:38
It doesn’t it doesn’t help you to to feel even more guilty.
Kayla Fratt 14:42
Oh, my God, I do you know, I mean, stressed out enough, like, and like, you know, doctors, nurses, like, there are so shift workers. Like, there are so many reasons that, like, you might just not be able to consistently keep up with your dog’s needs. Um. Yeah and and yeah. Again, I don’t think that, like scolding someone for having gotten the wrong breed is helpful. And, you know, maybe they were in a much different place when they first got that dog, and maybe they will be again soon, and maybe not. You know, I could break my leg tomorrow, like hopefully I’d be able to get back on my feet and get back into this line of work. Otherwise, we’ll just have the canine conservationists daily podcast, because nothing else. Um, but yeah, okay, so what are we? Let’s kind of roll things back. So let’s talk about boarding. What do you think people should kind of start out with? If they’re they need to get their dog boarded. How do you like counsel? I don’t know, your cousin who lives in Indiana, to find a boarding place. You know, do you recommend rover? How do you recommend like, Are there membership organizations for high quality places? Like, where should people start, and what are they kind of looking for when they’re on a website and just starting that, that search
Kerry Ryan 15:57
As a pet parent, when you’re looking into where you want to place your dog, or how you want your dog to be cared for. When you go out of town, the first decision you want to make is, Should someone stay in my home, or should my dog stay elsewhere? Ideally, a dog will stay in their home. It’s a familiar environment. They already know the rhythms and routines of of their home, and so when talking about stress, it’s going to be less stressful for a dog to stay in their home. However, it makes it makes people nervous to have someone you know, stay in their house. And so it’s and it’s just not doable sometimes, if, if it is doable, if you can have your dog stay in your own home, where do you find someone? You mentioned rover there, you know, other online services. Basically, you want to make sure that the person who’s staying in your home is licensed, meaning they are an official business holder in their state, licensed, bonded and insured. They have business insurance because you you know, you just don’t want to get into any kind of trouble if anything happens. You want the person who is there to have all of their activity covered under their insurance. But sometimes you might have a roommate, or you might have family members in your home. You might, for whatever reason, you just can’t have someone else stay in that in that case, then you have a choice. You can board your dog in a home based environment, or you can board a dog in a facility in a perfect world. If you do need to board your dog, it’s going to be in a home based environment. That’s, you know, that’s just because they that’s what they’re used to, that that’s what they have. They have spent their life, probably in a home, and so, so you’re giving them a facsimile, you know, you’re saying, like, okay, it’s not your house, but it is a house, and I’m not your mom, but, but that is my role here is, is to care for you and provide for you and dogs. I’m sure you’ve talked about this before. Dogs are not great at generalizing, but the way that we can help them generalize is to make as many of the features of the change be at least as familiar as possible, right? And so. So going from one house, your home, to another house, the person who’s caring for for your dog’s home is going to be a lot easier on a dog’s brain than going to a facility. Okay? So if you are able to find someone again, you want to make sure that they’re licensed, bonded and insured. You’re going to want to go and read reviews. You can absolutely ask for for referrals, and you want to find out as much about them as possible a referral from a friend or family member who you trust is going to be worth its weight in gold if you know someone personally who has had their dog cared for by a specific company, and you know has rave reviews about it, that’s that’s really Great, that that should be a really good sign sometimes. However, depending on a variety of circumstances, where you live in the country, the company’s availability in your area, it may be your only option to board in a facility. I should say too, that facilities. Actually are a lot cheaper, because they can have, they can house a whole lot more dogs, and whereas in a home based environment, most of our folks will only take one dog at a time along with our resident dog or dogs, but we’ll just have one guest at a time and so and so. Because of that, the prices, of course, need to be higher, because we can’t, we can’t charge less and have 12 dogs, whereas a facility might be able to say, you know, charge 30, $40 a night, but they might have a couple 100 dogs in their facility, right? Okay, so facilities sometimes is the only option that you have available to you, and if, if that is your only option, it’s okay. There are just some things that you want to you know, that you want to check on as you’re choosing a facility. So one, ideally, a dog will not be kenneled unless they are crate trained. A lot of a lot of people crate train their puppies because it’s really helpful for potty training and for tube training, and then crate training kind of falls away as it becomes less important and but if you have a dog that maybe was crate trained at one point, but may not be super comfortable in a crate, putting them in a facility where They will be putting them in a facility that uses crates might be really stressful for them. There are lots of facilities that do have other options, like having small rooms, as opposed to one large room with a bunch of metal kennels in it where dogs have kind of like nicer areas, nicer runs, with a with a door, with some sound, some sound baffling, so they’re not hearing everything, right? So you’ll only want to board them to the facility that board that has dogs primarily in crates, if your dog is crate trained, and if not, then you want to find some place that has other options. And then also, when you’re boarding a dog, you want to ask the facility, what you know, what the what the dog, how the dog will be spending their time? Are they created? Are they created? 22 out of 24 hours? Are they only taken out of the crate for potty breaks? Are they taken on leashed walks? Is it part of a daycare? And if so, then what is that schedule like? And what kind of dogs will they? Will they be with? Some facilities do have webcams, which can be really helpful, because then you you have that peace of mind that you can kind of check in on your dog. If there is a daycare session and your dog is is there, then you can take a look and you know your dog best, and you can look and see how your dog is doing. So I’d say that’s kind of like those are your options when you’re looking at overnight care in your home, in someone else’s home, preferably a licensed, bonded and insured trainer, or pet care, or in a facility, just making sure that you’re you know that that you’re doing your homework and that you’re choosing a facility that will have elements in it that make it as as comfortable as possible for your dog.
Kayla Fratt 23:55
Yeah, absolutely no, that makes sense. And I’m so glad you brought up the points about you know the difference between in your home and in someone else’s home. And also, you know, the crate training point. I know one of the things I did really early on with niffler, in particular, when I first got him, was when he was just a couple months old. So I’d had him for a couple weeks, I started booking and going and like, I had a boyfriend at the time, so I went and stayed at his place intentionally with niffler. I would send nifler to his place without me. Occasionally we’d go and stay in Airbnbs. And like thinking about this ahead of time, because I knew that as a conservation dog like he was going to be having to stay in hotels and all sorts of other places. And I didn’t know at the time, but it has turned out to be that he has, at times, needed to go and work alongside someone else. So, you know, there are also things that we can do proactively, in case your dog might end up needing to be in one of these situations. You know, obviously it’s easier the younger they are, to some degree, but you can start with this practice now and kind of intentionally. You. Taking your dog with you on some of these overnights and getting them used to that. I imagine a lot of our listeners already do, because most of y’all are kind of capital D dog people, but maybe not, and it’s something to consider for sure. Are there any you know I know when I when friends ask me to help them look for a dog. Or when, sometimes our students ask us for help in looking for new conservation dog, I have kind of these, these little like trigger phrases that raise yellow flags in my head. You know, if someone describes a dog as a Loof or dominant or something like that, I start, you know, being like I wonder. You know, we should ask more questions about that. Or, you know, reserved with strangers. You know, I think there are a lot of these euphemisms that you know. You want to know a little bit more about what that looks like before you consider maybe Flying Cross Country to go check that dog out and bring it home, which is a situation that a lot of our a lot of our listeners may be in if they’re looking for a working dog. What are some of those, like trigger phrases that you might see sometimes in boarding materials, or even say, hmm, I’m actually, I’m not sure if I like that. That is the way that they phrase that on their website. Or I’m not sure if that’s actually what we want to be looking for here. Yeah,
Kerry Ryan 26:12
Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s probably a lot of crossover anyone who talks about dominance or uses the word alpha, probably doesn’t really have a handle on the science of learning, and wouldn’t be someone that I would want to trust with my dog. However, there are some, there are some other kind of like, yeah, yellow flag words, if you’re, if you are boarding with a trainer, or if you’re boarding at a facility that has training, you you’ll want to know what kind of training they do, as you know, and I’m sure, as a lot of the listeners know, anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, you are allowed To to hang that shingle and start working as a dog trainer with absolutely no credentials or qualifications. So sometimes just asking them, or if, if they have this information on their website, but what kind of training they they do? Here are the here are the green flags, if positive reinforcement, rewards based, science based, Lima, which is least intrusive, minimally aversive. These, these are all terms that are that generally tend to be great people, sorry, the two the terms themselves, all of them are great, but the people who use those terms usually, you know, know what they’re doing.
Kayla Fratt 27:49
Yeah, there’s a correlation there.
Kerry Ryan 27:51
There’s a strong correlation.
Kayla Fratt 27:53
It’s not perfect, you know, I know, I know. We all have seen someone who says science. I mean, there are people who think that alpha training is science based, because of the one paper. But, you know, it’s a thing to look for, at least,
Kerry Ryan 28:07
Yeah, yeah. Well, I was actually, I was doing a recent project on search engine optimization and learning that a lot of aversive trainers use positive reinforcement as part of their as part of their SEO, but that’s just to get eyes on their page. It’s not that they are positive reinforcement trainers anyway.
Kayla Fratt 28:25
Oh no,
Kerry Ryan 28:27
yeah, sidebar, right. Okay, so, so we’ve talked about the good words, some yellow flag words, well, red flag would be, for me, would be e collars, anyone who is attempting to control your dog by adding pain or discomfort or fear into their life. Of course, Chris, you don’t want that person with your dog, right? So if they talk about E training, if they’re if you you can ask them what type of tools they use to manage the dog. Is it a slip lead? Which is a slip lead is just another term for for for a choke lead. Right? Slip leads can be used responsibly, but it’s also really easy to choke a dog on a slip lead. Um, so is the dog on a flat collar or the will they be putting any kind of other equipment on your dog, like a prong collar, etc? And then I would say the yellow words would be in in our industry, and I’m sure it’s probably the same for conservation dogs, when we hear the term balanced in a vacuum, balance sounds really lovely. Like of course, I want my dog to have balanced training. I want I want their training to, you know, to be multifaceted, and for them to learn about all different things. But in the dog training world, when you hear the word balanced in association. With a training organization, what that usually means is that they use positive reinforcement and that they also use some form of punishment. So they’re like, we’re balanced, we’re we, you know, we add things to the environment to increase the chance of the behavior occurring, and we also add things and maybe remove things to decrease the chance of a behavior happening. And so whenever I see the word balanced, usually, then I look and I see that that person is not actually certified. When you’re looking at websites, definitely click on the About link and look and see what letters they have after their name, and then look up what those letters mean. Usually speaking, if someone is a CP, dt, certified pet dog trainer or a or has been has gone through a program like the Karen Pryor academy or the gene Donaldson Academy, those are probably going to be trainers who know what they’re doing. If someone doesn’t have any certifications whatsoever, or if their certification is, say a course that they took with so and so, look up so and so is that, is that someone who who is espousing values that that you support or that you don’t? And so oftentimes, just reading the about page can give you a lot of information. But yeah, I’d say, generally speaking, it’s it’s similar across the board, that we’re going to stay away from people who, even if they try and put it mildly, we’re going to try and stay away from people who use force, fear and intimidation to control dogs, and stick with the people who are using really solid management tools. Management is just manipulating the environment so that your dog can be successful. Okay, so what environment is the dog in? Is it well managed? And how are they meeting the dog’s needs? And if they’re meeting the dog’s needs by using reinforcers, generally speaking, that’s going to be a much better environment for your dog.
Kayla Fratt 32:23
Yeah, no. And I think especially when you’re looking at like a boarding environment, where you’re not necessarily looking for someone to be training your dog in that situation, I would, yeah, be even more concerned about the possibility of some of these other tools being used on my dog. Because, yeah, I’m not really hiring you for that. You know, it’s one thing. If you’re gonna be taking my dog, um, on off leash hikes, I would love to see a GPS collar or something, um, and you know, if that facility happens to have alphas instead of Astros, you know, I’m not necessarily going to throw a fit over that, however, yeah, like, I’m not hiring you for that, so I’m even more concerned about it in that sort of situation. And yeah, I know, you know, it’s funny, I always get a little like, tingle in the back of my head if I see someone advertising like, pack walks where I’m like, I want to know what more of what you mean about that. Like, are you? I’ve got friends who use that term in their literature, and they’re just talking about social walks, and they’re using the term that people are familiar with because they grew up watching Cesar Milan, and that’s what they’re what they think of when they think group walk, they think it’s called a pack walk. Okay, that’s fine. Or do you mean that you’ve got, like a horse riding crop, and you’re using that to keep the dogs behind you as you’re walking, so that they all walk perfectly, you know, spread out in a line, five dogs deep on either side of you. You know, yeah, you want to, you want to know the difference between those two things. And there are things that there are so many things that can just mean a lot of different so many things can mean a lot of different things.
Kerry Ryan 34:05
Sidebar, Garmin, Garmin is phasing out their Astros. Oh, no. So yeah, okay, so they’re phasing out the Astros. They’ll have the Alpha handheld units, which then the Alpha handheld can be used on collars with with prom, with shock capability and without so. So moving forward, if you’re buying new equipment, you have to buy, you have to get the alpha for the handheld unit, but then for the collar, you can get a coon collar, which doesn’t even have the capability to shock anyway, when, when I heard that, it was such a big bummer, because I was like, the dog training or the dog world doesn’t need another use of the word Alpha. But here we go,
Kayla Fratt 34:54
Right well, and it’s just a bummer to not be able to, like, choose between the two. And even, yeah, and I know, I think some of us, when people maybe on the internet or social media, like, Question A GPS collar that looks like a shock collar, it’s nice to be able to say, Oh, it doesn’t even have a shock function. And having to say, like, well, they no longer have, like, there isn’t one on the market that doesn’t have a shock function. But, like, I don’t use that. I mean, it sounds like, yeah, the coon which, yeah,
Kerry Ryan 35:25
But yeah, the coon collars, yeah. You can say, like, no, that the the collar does not even have the capability to shock the dog. Yeah. You know that. They don’t need to know that. There’s it. Part of the software in the handheld unit is that if they’re in the right collar, they can shock them anyway, yeah. You brought up a good point. Um, you know, so, like, there are a lot of it’s very easy to tell the red flags when you’re dealing with someone who is caring for a door of caring for a dog, who’s also part of a training organization, or they are a trainer, or they’re at a training facility. But it can be, it can be more complicated when you’re looking say, at so and so, who is there a pet sitter? And that’s what they do. They’re not a trainer. They care for dogs overnight. And so for those people, you’ll want to check references, read reviews. You can also do a really easy and quick phone interview with that person and say, how do you how do you spend the day with the dogs? What happens if my dog X, Y and Z. What happens if my dog gets out? How high is your fence? Do you have tracking capabilities? What happens if my dog, if my dog is barking, do you close the shades? Do you hit him with a newspaper? You know, like there are really easy ways, really easy questions just to get a general sense of where that person is coming.
Kayla Fratt 37:10
Yeah, absolutely no. And I think asking some of those interview questions can even just give you an idea of, have they thought this through, like, do they actually know what they’re doing? I just had a, I guess by just I mean, we’re recording at the end of September, and this was back in July, but I was at a wedding, and a friend’s fiance ended up needing to leave the kind of post wedding festivities early so, and luckily, they made it through the whole wedding. This was like a couple days after the wedding, but we were all hanging out. We had a bunch of college friends who were gonna hang out for several days. He ended up needing to leave early because their pet sitter was not handling the dog having diarrhea appropriately. And the pet sitter just, I think she was pretty young, and just didn’t really seem to know what to do. And he ended up, you know, rebooking his flights and leaving a wedding early because they couldn’t handle something as straightforward as diarrhea. And obviously, diarrhea sometimes can be like a true emergency, where you might want to go home anyway. But it doesn’t sound like that was the case. It sounds like it was just the sort of thing of someone being really inexperienced and not having a plan, not having troubleshooting capabilities for dealing with those sorts of things. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And it was, it was a real bummer to see, you know, like, as, like, the dog person in the friend group, oh no. Like, I feel like, somehow this is my fault. I don’t know they didn’t ask me for dog like, boarding recommendations. They live in Colorado. I live in Oregon, like it is not my fault, but somehow I feel responsible.
Kerry Ryan 38:41
I totally, I totally understand. Yeah, I should also say that there one dog that I boarded. I haven’t actually had many dogs stay with me that that have either come to me or during their time, have contracted giardia. It’s something like it’s out there. Something is ubiquitous. It can happen. But one time in particular, I learned that one of my boarding dogs had had Giardia when I was woken by the this sound that sounded like an air cannon. Turned on the lights, and the dog was standing in front of the wall with and his eyes were like saucers. His eyes were so big, and he had pooped all over the wall anyway. So, yeah, like, diarrhea can be real, but you’re right. It is something that is like, there are some things that come with dogs. You know, dogs don’t use toilets, and dogs, especially in urban environments, can can get communicable diseases, etc. And so you want to make sure that your, the person who’s staying with your dog has can. Contingency plans. And also make sure that you have contingency plans. You know, they should always be asking, who’s your emergency contact? What would you like us to do if X, Y and Z happens? Do you have a vet release on file, etc?
Kayla Fratt 40:16
Yeah, absolutely. And that was actually what I was thinking we could pivot to next. Or, you know, what are some of the sorts of things like. So for example, my main dog sitter here in Corvallis is an undergrad, Finn. They work with Barley and me for some of the training stuff. They’re kind of interning under us, and their work study is related to my PhD. So they know the dogs really well, and they know the place. They’re not insured, they’re not bonded, it’s just a friend. And, you know, in order to kind of empower them as my dog sitter, I have a sheet that has my main vet, the emergency vet, their phone numbers, their addresses, because I don’t want them trying to Google something when they’re under duress, if something goes wrong. You know, I’ve got the list of the equipment, the list of commands. I try to keep it short, like I have as a back in my days, when I did more dog sitting, I’ve been handed the binder. Sometimes you’re lucky, and it’s got like, color coded tabs because someone’s like, really extra, and then it’s like, actually kind of nice, but a lot of times it’s really chaotic and stressful. So I try really hard to, like, make it something that fits on one page and it has reminders of, like, what they’re fed when, and, you know, all of those sorts of basic things, but making sure that they have, you know, the power and something easy with those emergency contacts, I guess, and kind of facilitating that again, because we might be in a situation where it does make more sense to ask your cousin, to ask your neighbor, Maybe ask someone with less experience, because, and maybe someone who’s not a professional, but does know your dogs and know your area really well, and then you want to, you know, maybe guide them through that, because in that situation, you are the expert. So is there anything else that you would really recommend someone making sure that they hand off if they’re in that situation of, you know, asking your cousin to watch the dog?
Kerry Ryan 41:58
Yeah, yeah. And you, you bring up a good point too, in that there. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with having a family member watch your dog or or a friend or co worker, etc. Like there’s nothing wrong, and in many, many ways, it will very likely be a hell of a lot cheaper right to have if I’m able to board my dog with my neighbor, as opposed to at a nearby facility. So because it gets expensive really fast, and so it might be that might just be the option that is available to you. So so in the event and and also, it’s like you, even if you do know of a licensed, bonded and insured pet sitter, if you know of them, but don’t know them, but you know your neighbor, and you know your neighbor loves your dogs, you know it’s it’s going to be a lot more appealing to go with the known entity, which is completely understandable, I think absolutely what you said, having a one sheet that is on the fridge that has very basic information. It has your dog’s vet, a an emergency contact in town, your dog’s feeding and medication schedule and then tips and tricks to best manage their care. I think you hit the nail on the head, though, when, when you said, like, yes, some sometimes I will get, you know, we’ll get binders full of information, and I understand that person because I am that person.
Kayla Fratt 43:53
I can,
Kerry Ryan 43:53
like, cross reference it for, yeah, exactly. So I say, I say, this was with empathy, but yeah, ideally, if you’re leaving with your if you’re leaving your dog with someone, or someone is staying in your home, just having a one sheet with the basic information that is in an easily accessible place, on, say, on the fridge, is going to be a really smart best practice. Yeah.
Kayla Fratt 44:21
Yeah, absolutely. And like, I know also this is getting to the cat, but like, I make sure that I have shown them, or maybe right now now, we’re probably getting into two pages. But like, where the cat, my cat wears a tracking collar, like, where the charger is for that, because it goes dead about every fourth day, and he is much more likely to get out when he’s being sat. He gets out probably once a week when I’m watching him. And usually, you know, I’m able to tackle him within 30 seconds of him getting out through the door. But not always yeah and yeah, if you’ve got anything like that, just making sure that they know exactly how, how to access that, how to cut you. Yeah, how to connect to it. I had something else that I was thinking of.
Kerry Ryan 45:05
Let me jump in. Something that I love about boarding dogs is the dog arrives with their things, so then I have their things, right? If I’m pet sitting, if I’m staying in someone else’s home, it, it’s a, it’s a huge kindness to put everything in one place. So even if the dog food is in the garage and the medication is on this shelf and the spare bedding is whatever, just like, put it all in one place.
Kayla Fratt 45:39
Put it on the table, please.
Kerry Ryan 45:40
Yeah. Just, just put, put it all there to set your pet sitter up for success. And so you’re not getting those calls of, like, yeah, where the collar is dead. And I’ve looked through the whole house and I cannot find the charger, yeah,
Kayla Fratt 45:55
Yeah, yeah. Two other things that, I guess, that I’ve thought of now again, and now we’re kind of in the like, again. These are mostly RP people who are coming and staying in your home. But I but cleaning supplies, oh my god. Like, because there’s nothing like more embarrassing than having to admit, as a pet sitter, that, like, the dog tinkled a little bit when you got home because they were excited. And now you don’t know where, oh no. And now, and now, you’ve got, like, a stressed pet owner on the other end of the line being like, why is the dog peeing in the house? What’s going on? Like, are you telling me the full story? And it’s like, you know, like it didn’t have to or like they had him out of their paws, or whatever it is. Like, make sure they know what the dog towels on. Make sure they know how to clean stuff up. And, you know, maybe you give them an idea of when to contact you. If there’s, like, surprised, surprised bedding or something your grandma’s quilt, you know, and maybe put those away so that they don’t have to worry about it. The other thing that I really like doing with my pet sitters is I take them on a walk at our we’ve got a park that I take the dogs to just about every day. It’s off leash friendly, and I take them with me on a long walk there, so that they can see how I interact with the dogs when they’re off leash. They see how I manage barley around the disc golf course, because that is kind of a whole endeavor. I make sure that they know where the long lines are if they don’t feel up, you know, ready for trying to manage a disc obsessed dog around a disc golf course, because I understand that and, you know, and then showing them, you know, we have a pretty strict no fetch in the house rule for barley in particular. But then showing them, hey, if you do want to go play fetch with them, here’s how here’s how we do it with each dog. Here’s how to throw the disc appropriately. Here’s how to throw the ball. Here are, like, some of the ways that you can play with them safely. And I think particularly for the dogs that are owned disproportionately bar our audience. That’s really important to make sure that, you know, if they’re kind of casually hanging out reading, and the dog brings them a tug toy, they don’t get bitten or, you know, and they feel empowered to have a good time with your dog. If that’s something that you permit strangers to do with your dog, and especially if you’re going to be gone for weeks at a time, like you, probably want to figure out a way to let them do those activities and share those activities safely with your dog, but really thinking through how to do that in a way that is safe and fair to to your sitter
Kerry Ryan 48:11
Totally, and especially when you’re when you’re when you add the element of a dog being off leash outside, there’s, There’s there’s a lot of risks that come with that. However, like you said, if you’re going to be gone for weeks and you have a border collie detection dog, that dog is going to need some time to to explore outside.
Kayla Fratt 48:34
Oh my god, it’s, it’s just about impossible to meet Niffler’s energy needs without letting him sprint. Yeah, and I like, I’ve got a bike during setup, but I’m, I probably am not gonna ask my like, he’s exquisitely trained, but like, it’s a scary thing, and I’ve never had an accident, but like, God, I’d feel terrible if I told a pet sitter that they could give it a go.
Kerry Ryan 48:59
As a young trainer, I once got on my little razor kick scooter, and I had a found a husky mix on the side of the road, and I was like, Hey, I maybe I can do my own skijor, my scooter, Scooterjoring, and I’ll just, kind of like, I’ll just wing it. And it was, it was, it was just, it was a very bad decision.
Kayla Fratt 49:19
I mean, yeah, it was, I mean, not that I was concertedly training, but it was a years long thing to kind of get to the point where I felt like niffler had the foundations to bike draw with him. And it was, you know, teaching him directionals while we’re walking, teaching him directionals off leash, teaching him directional teaching him to run with me, then teaching him to ski with me, then teaching him to bike with me, kind of going up in the ravine if there’s a crash slowly over time. I probably could have done it more quickly if I really needed to. But yeah, again, just be kind to your to your sitters, and make sure you set them up for success and that Yeah, and it goes both for the professional. And the kind of hobbyist, or like, neighborly side of things, although, again, hopefully those professionals are going to have that. Those intake forms have the like checklist of the things that you bring with them. You know, that is a sign of even if there are probably people like, I know I would put myself in this category. I was probably more of a hobbyist anyway, but like, I was good at taking care of the dogs. I was terrible at the organization side of things. Like I did not have good systems in place for handing off equipment and checklists and those sorts of things. And you know, sometimes that that is what you get, honestly, actually, story time. When I was in Alaska, I had to board barley for a week because I was going down to that wedding that wedding that I was just talking about, and I couldn’t bring barley from Alaska to Seattle. And we lived on an island in Alaska, and there was one dog sitter on the whole island, you know, because literally, an island in Alaska, and we were lucky there was one, honestly, and she was probably about my age, maybe a little bit younger, so kind of mid 20s to early 30s. And I met up with her, I liked how she interacted with her dogs. She did have her dogs on an E collar, but again, you know, one dog sit around the island as long as she didn’t put an E collar on barley. I was fine with it, but the handoff process, and like the communication and the back and forth getting everything organized was so infuriating and so bad, and I kept being frustrated with it, and then just kind of being like, hey, you know, a, they’ve got no other options, Kayla and B, we we like how she is with the dogs. She just isn’t quite professional and organized yet on the business side. And those things don’t always correlate. I know, I think we’ve probably all been in a situation, whether it’s dog related or not, where we’ve seen someone with a very fancy website and a very swanky sales, um, side of things, and then, you know, the operations are maybe not as great, um, so when that makes things tricky, though, you know, if someone’s got terrible systems and a really bad way, you know, they just don’t have good checklists. It makes it hard to build trust with them. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re, you know, gonna get your dog killed
Kerry Ryan 52:12
Absolutely, or if they’re, I mean, a lot, I’m sure this isn’t news to you, but, um, a lot of people who are dog people who really care for dogs are usually better communicating with dogs than with fellow humans, right? And so I do feel that too. Is that like when I when I am speaking with people i i love it when they kind of, kind of don’t have time for me because they’re too busy with my dog, and they where they are clearly comfortable. I don’t care if they’re kind of uncomfortable speaking with me, as long as they’re really at home speaking with my dog.
Kayla Fratt 52:59
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, even if your your situation isn’t quite as extreme as living on an island in Alaska and needing a dog sitter. You know there, there are a lot of times where you might just need to go with someone who isn’t necessarily your first choice and figuring out how to how to empower them, how to decide. You know, what you’re willing to compromise on might be, might be helpful as well. You know, if you’re listening and you’ve got a dog who has more specific behavioral or medical needs, you might have to weigh things differently. You might be more inclined to board your dog at the veterinarian if, for some reason, you have to board your 14 year old diabetic dog. You know that might outweigh the fact that being boarded at a veterinarian is generally going to be more of a kennel environment and be more stressful. But you know, the veterinarian is probably going to keep your veterinarian is probably going to keep your dog alive.
Kerry Ryan 53:45
Yeah, everything, everything we do, pretty much in life, but definitely with our dogs, we’re always doing a cost benefit analysis. And so you just, you know your dog best, you know your situation best. You think about, okay, so what? What are my wins here, and what are my losses? And you know, is what you said, you know, maybe they will be, maybe they’re not creat trained, and they, if I board them with the vet, they’ll be in a crate. However, they are on life saving medication multiple times per day. So you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re doing this cost benefit analysis, and at the end of the day you you get to decide what is best for you and what is best for your dog. You know that there’s no one right answer,
Kayla Fratt 54:32
No, absolutely not. Well, we should probably wrap it up here. Barley just came and put his head in my lap, which is that I have missed dinner by 21 minutes, and I am at risk of disciplinary action from the union. So yeah, are there any like closing thoughts? Anything else you want to bring up circle back to, anything we need to expand on or we just completely forgot? So. Hmm,
Kerry Ryan 55:01
I think I would just revisit the there. There’s a lot that, there’s a lot to do with your gut. If you meet with someone and it just doesn’t feel right, pay attention to that, even if, yeah, maybe they have a really great website, or all of their materials are really good. But if, if you just get a feeling, if you can go with your gut, and if you get a warm, fuzzy feeling watching someone interact with your dog, you know again, maybe, your gut is trying to tell you something.
Kayla Fratt 55:43
Yeah, absolutely. I think. I think trusting your gut and you know, and maybe starting the process of searching early enough that you have time to trust your gut as well
Kerry Ryan 55:53
It’s a really good point. Yeah, I mean, it’s crazy, it’s post COVID, it’s slowed down a little bit, but people are traveling, and they’re planning travel, and they’re planning in advance. And so if you want, if you do want that highly qualified, certified trainer to watch your dog, that the most advanced notice you can give the better chance you’ll be able to place your dog with them.
Kayla Fratt 56:23
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you and I were just talking before we hit record that I’m traveling for Christmas without the dogs for the first time. Yeah, I think ever, because I’m going to Morocco, which is not a dog friendly vacation. And yeah, so I’m like, I’m already starting to, like, ask my friends that I know are local to Corvallis, and being like, Hey, are you staying home for Christmas? Do you want to stay at my house? Like international students, like, already starting to, like, ask around, because I think you said you guys are already basically full up for Christmas. And again, we’re recording september 30, so that’s it’s early, yeah,
Kerry Ryan 57:00
Yeah, yep, yes. I think that’s a great point at you know, it’s easy. It’s kind of easy. Even as a dog person, it’s easy to forget the dog. Your your your mental load is entirely taken up by your travel. And then you’re like, oh, oh, shoot. What am I gonna do? Is the dog, right? So just like, do your best and try and have them be in a to have it, have their care be a part of your trip plan.
Kayla Fratt 57:30
Yeah, yeah. And maybe for someone who is also too far on the other end of the spectrum, like having a good Rolodex of people that you can ask helps a lot. I know I I’m kind of on the opposite end where my knee jerk reaction when someone asks about an overnight trip is to be like, No, I can’t. I’ve got the dogs Sure. And like, yeah, if you can build a good, a good network of people to help trade dog sitting, you know, people who, again, like my friend Finn, who I really trust, and, you know, having a couple of those people so that you can say, hey, yeah, probably let me text my dog sitters and decide, like, I just had an exam, my friend Kabir is getting citizenship this coming weekend, or, I think, in a couple days, and we’re celebrating over the weekend, so I’m flying down to LA for a weekend, and the first thing before I bought plane tickets was I texted my dog sitters to make sure that I could have the dogs taken care of.
Kerry Ryan 58:24
Oh, I love that. When, when we have clients who are like, Hey, we’re gonna go on a trip sometime this fall. When, when works, you know, one works for you, maybe we can find a time that lines up that’s amazing, yeah,
Kayla Fratt 58:40
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, either end of the spectrum, either try not to forget the dog, and also maybe, like, take a breath, text your dog sitters and then say yes or no to the invitation, maybe you can go. Or even, I was invited to a football game like the next town over, basically, you know, down Valley. And my first response was, oh, gosh, I don’t know if you know. I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to do that with the dogs. And I was like, you know, I think if I take them for a good long run that morning, like they’ll be fine for eight hours. It’s a weekend. They don’t know. It’s a Saturday. They don’t know that I’m leaving them for football instead of but, yeah, now we’re just getting into Kayla’s dog anxiety. It’s not the point, but it’s deep. It’s it’s serious. It’s deep with all of us. Yeah, well, and Carrie, thank you for what you’re doing to help those of us with dog guilt and dog anxiety, that and feel good about leaving our dogs while we’re out of town. I think we’ve said the name of your business a couple times, but remind us where people can find you online and we’ll sign off.
Kerry Ryan 59:48
Sure thing, Dog Adventures Northwest, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram and online at dogadventuresnw.com,
Kayla Fratt 59:59
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on and for everyone at home, thank you for listening. I hope you learned a lot and stuck with us, even though it’s a little bit of an atypical episode and that you’re feeling inspired to get outside and be a canine conservationist in whatever way suits your passions and your skill set. You can find show notes, donate to K9Conservationists, join our Patreon, or sign up for our course, all at k9conservationists.org until next time. Bye!